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I have only two options to allow posting here. I can allow everyone to post or limited members. I've always had it set to everyone, but I've removed this option as its just getting spammed too much and I don't have the time or desire to delete them all. Most of these spams seem to be machine generated as they are word nonsense with maybe the word viagra linked somewhere. The site I use to host my site doesn't really have a sophisticated enough system to weed out machine spamming,. No one is a limited member, so there will be no opportunity to post here for now.
That's because most failed to realize that God said "2000 years". The gregorian calendar was invented in 1582.. The year was not accurate. And also many failed to figure out why Jesus said "No signs will be given except the sign of Jonah!". Why he said that ? Jonah story was not about his death/raise but also about 40 days Judgement warned. Typical of 40 years Judgement on Israel and Jerusalem. If you do math... we all know the history that Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70. Easy math - 70-40 = 30. Clearly, Jesus died and raised in AD 30.. 40 years later Jerusalem destroyed in AD 70... Now 2000 years from AD 30 is what ? 2030... However the bible said that Adam and Eve will marry on the sixth day which means Jesus will come before 2030 to give the judgement on his own believers then married... 2030 Jesus and the Saints will march out to the embattled Jerusalem... That is the truth. Many failed to figure it out. It's shame that they chased the speculation. They still do today.
For my own reasons I have read much of the earliest church writers aka the early church fathers. I want to include an excerpt from the apology of Aristedes dated about ad 125 in other words within one generation of the close of the new testament. John Thomas did not rediscover the lost Truth, no more than the JWs or Mormons or Seventh Day Adventists. Christianity has been consistent from the beginning:
"The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it. This Jesus, then, was born of the race of the Hebrews; and he had twelve disciples in order that the purpose of his incarnation might in time be accomplished. But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried; and they say that after three days he rose and ascended to heaven. Thereupon these twelve disciples went forth throughout the known parts of the world, and kept showing his greatness with all modesty and uprightness. And hence also those of the present day who believe that preaching are called Christians, and they are become famous."
Here then is a plain very early acknowledgement of both Jesus pre-existence and also full deity.
From another early source, the Epistle to Diognetus, here is a simple, eloquent explanation of substitutionary atonement which has been ridiculed in the Christadelphian community.
"it should now, through the kindness of God, be vouchsafed to us; and having made it manifest that in ourselves we were unable to enter into the kingdom of God, we might through the power of God be made able. But when our wickedness had reached its height, and it had been clearly shown that its reward, punishment and death, was impending over us; and when the time had come which God had before appointed for manifesting His own kindness and power, how the one love of God, through exceeding regard for men, did not regard us with hatred, nor thrust us away, nor remember our iniquity against us, but showed great long-suffering, and bore with us, He Himself took on Him the burden of our iniquities, He gave His own Son as a ransom for us, the holy One for transgressors, the blameless One for the wicked, the righteous One for the unrighteous, the incorruptible One for the corruptible, the immortal One for them that are mortal. For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness? By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! that the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors! Having therefore convinced us in the former time that our nature was unable to attain to life, and having now revealed the Saviour who is able to save even those things which it was [formerly] impossible to save, by both these facts He desired to lead us to trust in His kindness, to esteem Him our Nourisher, Father, Teacher, Counsellor, Healer, our Wisdom, Light, Honour, Glory, Power, and Life, so that we should not be anxious[ concerning clothing and food."
I apologize for the length of this, but if there are any who wish to read further there are a number of very early texts. Re-reading the marytrdom of Polycarp again, I find a belief in Satan, in the presence of the Holy Spirit, and in immediate reward upon death. These writings provide a wonderful glimpse into both the eraliest Christians beliefs and also their manner of life. They have been enormously helpful to me in my journey out of Christadelphia.
This is a very interesting website. It's always good for any religious community to test its beliefs and traditions.
thanks for all this info, it has been very helpful
Pat, I am not surprised the way you were treated, I am not a christo, but had a theological relationship with CD's and know few which I found ok, but bit up themselves that they know it all. At a lecture, one person said that John Thomas was inspired by God to rediscover the truth, but after investigating JT personally, I have found out that he was no different then you and I, he was not moved by God, he did not like everything Christianity preached so he got on the band wagon and started his own religion and passed on his views. Then he wrote books, but copied other writers, called his books " original, authentic ", he was plagarist, but many christos don't know, or do not want to know. I have heard Christos say" that they have been called out by God, that they alone hold the truth, they are priviledged to hold the key of knowledge to unlock the hidden secrets in the Bible, really, I see them now as nutty professors of the theologie, they have written off all other believers, " because we know" CD's like to think that they are kings with knowledge and can search out all. And yes they watch middle east with hawk eyes for signs " Jesus is coming soon ". Christ said " I will come like a thief in the night " so no one knows when, but we can only assume. Are they a cult, perhaps not , but are a cult minded sect.
Are your members aware a group of Christadelphians went so nutty on their doctrine that it resulted in a small migration to Israel? The folks believed the Second Advent was imminent, and sold all of their houses and possessions and went to await Christ's imminent arrival in the Holy Land. Of course, the dear one never put in an appearance. The result was suicide attempts, deportations, divorces, violence, incarcerations, bankruptcies.
And this is not a cult? By whose definition does it not qualify?
And this was evident long before the above-mentioned migration. In one church to which I belonged, the entire meeting was run based on fear of the church's self-appointed firebrand.
My experiences with this religion were nightmarish.
I was excommunicated for "marrying out of the Truth." Meaning, I married someone outside of the religion. Others, who had done likewise, were not excommunicated. When I protested the double standard, they then changed the reason for excommunication to "being too long absent from the Table of the Lord" (meaning, communion / services). But I'd had two elderly relatives in diapers and wheelchairs to care for, and had been unable to attend services, because the relatives could not be left unattended. The church was ten minutes from our house, but no one there came to sit with the old folks, so I could sometimes attend services, and it also occurred to no one to bring communion to us. Such disciples of Christ.....
So they kicked me out. And with each passing year, despite initial disorientation and confusion and unhappiness, I have become more and more certain I can never return to their meetings. They are, it has become clear to me, a cult.
Thanks for letting me. join the site .....
I am so glad that confess Jesus as my Lord in the Holy Spirits power and be thankful for you all in faith for christ in grace and let us be big indeeds with God and be learn of the Holy Spirit and sowing our seed in blessing ,thanks and bless,keijo sweden
Never underestimate the deceit and dishonesty that this group is capable of. They spend all of their time dismissing others, babbling about prophecy, and claiming to read the bible. I spent 14 years married to one, and ten years as one, and I've paid the price.
After being "in" for about 5 years, I was asked to repair the recording brother's ( and my father in laws) computer. The reason for the problem was immediately apparent, sadly although he believed himself to be exceptionally clever, and have discovered what Christians for 2000 years had missed, he did not know how to cover his tracks on the internet. All those hours in the "study" were really spent watching teenage girls perform oral sex on older men, no wonder his dismal exhortations and lectures were lacking content, and mostly sounded like quickly rehashed bits of the Christadelphian. Oh well, at least it's young girls he's interested in!
Still, this is Christadelphianism, My brother in law certainly knew about the spirit, he drank enough of it in the strip clubs and casinos he spent his time in. He always wore a nice suit to the meeting on a Sunday, and could always be relied on to "lecture" so that's OK. Rule number 2, do as I say, not as I do.
When my wife had become bored, and had an affair, the "meetings" response was to cover it up, pretend it never happened, her Mother's was to advise her to take money, and hide it so that when she left me she would have plenty!
Sure enough, she did leave, The recording brother and his wife made all the arrangements, in secret, and booked my 2 children in with them to the so called Swanwick Christadelphian "Bible School" while the deed was done. How Christian.
It later came to light that they had defrauded me of £14,000 too. Never mind, i'd left the meeting by then, and it's OK to defraud people in the "world" isn't it?
My ex-father in law, the recording brother, continues to exhort and lecture, and my kids have to go to Sunday School. He now has a new activity too, he's a big noise in the regional "Youth Group" too.
Oh, I forgot to say...my daughter turned 13 a few months ago. That's right, she's a teenager!
Now, I'm sure some Christadelphian will pop up and delete this post, or a least make apology, and assure me that it's just individuals, they always do. They are brethren and sisters, but when they misbehave they are all individuals. And they always vote him back in too.
If you are looking for the truth, look elsewhere, they don't have it, in fact they don't even have the common decency that the world does. They just have their own, insular, and out of date belief set that they use, along with their suits and hats and "meetings" to hide their own lies, dishonesty, and distortion.
Thank God I am free of them.
Relationship with christadelphians:from personal expirience is very difficult,looked upon as unbeliever,they are always correct in the theological discussions, a lot of J.Thomas and R.Roberts teachings, failed end time prophesies brushed away, so what everybody makes a mistake, no sir don't speculate then you will not end up with an egg on the face, difficult people to deal with.
"Christadelphian attempts to come up with a consistent theology have been equally complex." We believe that only the Father is God Most High. Nothing could be simpler.
Love and greetings! Thanks for letting me join this forum. My back ground is a Jehovah's Witness one. My twin sister and I as well as my younger brother were born and raised in the Watchtower Society. In 1997 I began to look more closely into the history and earlier teachings, which the members say does not matter if there were "mistakes" in interpretations made in the past "because (according to Proverbs 4:18 ) the light gets brighter and brighter" in other words, though through the past years,some of what the leaders of the WTS taught they CLAIMED that it was given by God, through Christ as "food from God's table" had actually been error. Most Jehovah's Witnesses do not think about the TIME that those errors were taught. In other words, WHAT was taught WHEN. For instance, they taught as long as I can remember that Christ returned invisibly in 1914, and chose the WTS as "The faithful and Discreet Slave" in 1919, but I learned that they had taught many years EARLIER that Christ had returned (invisibly) in 1874 and continued to teach this earlier date for his return clear down to 1929. So if he had come in 1914, they definitely sure didn't know it. LOL! Because in that year they were still teaching that he had returned earlier in 1874. Sorry if I am boring you with all of this.
So I had begun a DEED personal Bible study on my own and began to see other errors that they are teaching even now. I have not joined any other church. I would call myself a non sectarian Christian. I can see that just like the Watchtower Society, the Christadelphian movement is very judgmental of other believers outside of their own group. Yes, just like the Christadelphians they cannnot see that just like the other churches, they ALSO do not have all "truith"! Yet prejudge the others thinking that "only THEY have THE TRUTH. And like the Christadelphians, they refuse to recognize the FAITH of others outside their group.
It is very interesting to see how Christadelphians accept the teaching that Satan and demons do not exist and if anyone has an experience with a demon attack, they view the person as being mentally ill. In other words, either mentally ill, or a liar. To accuse another person as a liar when he is telling a true personal experience is not obeying Christ when Christ said to treat others the way they, themselves want to be treated. It is also a terrible thing to do to TWIST Jesus own words as found in Scripture to make it appear that what is written that he said, is not what he said and putting a twist on it as being not what he meant.
As many of you know here that we are not going to be judged negatively on the basis of not knowing "all truth", even the apostle Paul said: "At this time, we see IN PART" and also as if we are seeing through a hazy mirror. And 1 Cor 13 he said that we could even have the knowledge of God, but if we don't have LOVE, we are NOTHING.
Now the big thing I have against the WTS and the Christadelphians is because they PREJUDGE. It is terrible the way the Christadelpians will not allow a non member to share the Lords Memorial with them because they are not baptized a Christadelphian. At least in the WTS, they invite outsiders to attend or to celebrate the Lords Memorial with them, but the terrible thing is that they expect no one except a few exclusive members to eat and to drink (partake) of the bread and wine. (Another terrible doctrine of theirs which is definitely in error)
Well I didn't mean to write so much. Just to let you know that I now know that the Christadelphians teach more truth than those in the Watchtower Society, yet sadly, they, too don't know that they are also making terrible mistakes that may bring them into negative judgment when Christ comes, because they have allowed the Leaders to push them into disobeying Christ when he said to "stop judging" "stop condeming", through their teaching of some false doctrines which they are not being cautious enough to reject.
I am interested in your stories and why most of you have left the Christadelphian movement. Have some of you began to read the Bible on your own to discover that Satan and the demons are real spirit persons?
Most CD's I know are kind,but only we have the "TRUTH "people.Very busy religion,based on many meetings,bible study and lectures.CD's rubbish the mainstream christianity but fail to see their own backyard.Many failed predictions including J.Thomas R.Roberts and many others,tried to predict the end of the world as we know.So now they don't put dates but replaced it with "very soon".CD's should re read the bible and see what Christ have said: I will come like a thief in the night,no one to know the date or the time,but you don't get that.Big speculation of CD's:that they will be miraculously plucket out and taken to Mt.Sinai and judged by Christ and the wordhy will be given eternal life and they will assist Christ in running His kingdom on earth,what a myth.CD's are the chosen and called elite group,if you believe in such myth then your religion falls into cult category.Nobody is perfect including CD's.All wordly events are quickly tied to the Bible with more failures,and some of your teaching are also questinable like the main christianity,after all is the way you interpret the Bible and it is your view that does not make you right and if we don't agree with you we become "unbelievers".So sad,so many nice people,but believe they are above all,so "higher than thou"
I can understand you not wishing to discuss further, Kal, because this site makes a number of valid points and observations. Many Christians that Christadelphians have "cursed" as "the apostacy" could make the exact same points you have made. Our criteria has to be truth, not an attempt to suggest those who question "will not prosper". A new religion that has a long list of exclusive criteria and never existed prior to the nineteenth century can hardly be described physically or spiritually as Israel or Jacob.
Tim. I will leave this with you. There is an important principle found in Num.23:21. He has not observed iniquity in Jacob, Nor has He seen wickedness in Israel. This was God’s assessment of the people, while in other places he calls them hard hearted, stiff necked and faithless. While God was working with them to change them, none could curse them and prosper V20. This is part of the Abrahamic blessing Gen.12:3. Be warned.
Paul Hosking says...Hi Tim. I must say I think you've done well to set up this website, and I pray your work on it will be blessed. I've been saddened by an almost continuous drain of precious brothers and sisters away from our community, both by resignation and by disfellowship. I've been close to a number of cases which I felt were the result of insensitivity and misunderstanding. Once a long time ago I seconded a proposition for disfellowship, and over the years I have come to regret the position I took at the time as I have come to understand and appreciate different viewpoints. Also I suspect we are putting a kind of barrier around "the Breaking of Bread" and making it into something that was never intended by the Lord Jesus. I have just helped to establish a small new ecclesia in Totton where we are all keen to avoid any kind of disfellowship or resignation by getting to know one another really well, by encouraging free discussion on all matters, and by taking a full shared responsibility by all members without having an Arranging Committee, which can so easily become a Management Committee, and sometimes stifles communication rather than promoting it. Also we have to learn to make the Bible our guide rather than Christadelphian tradition. I value the Christadelphian heritage, but fear it can so easily become more important to us than the Bible. All the five members at Totton are keen to recover lost members wherever we can, or support them in whatever way we can while barriers remain.
We have a new website www.tottonchristadelphians.org.uk and we are making a priority of sharing the bible with others. We have lots to learn. we are trying to keep a good relationship with our "parent ecclesia" Southampton, but we are trying to do a number of things differently.
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Read an online book detailing why a top Christadelphian author and speaker found he could no longer believe what he himself taught.
Do Christadelphians understand what mainstream Christianity believes, or do they misrepresent their teachings?
Read a satirical novel on the Christadelphians with some basis in truth.